I have been running GRML as my main desktop for well over 5 years now, and I actually welcome their new changes.
The reason for that is that they have developed a great tool, grml-live, that installs and repackages new ISOs really easily. Make sure to get the updated version, though, as I poked quite a few holes in the one that got released with 2011.12.
I'm now currently running on a 800 MB image that has GRML_XL as well as additional packages that I personally want, which makes it even more flexible than it was before.
Granted, it's a little silly that you have to use this repackaging tool to get a 700 MB ISO, but that can be tricky if trying to get the exact size right with a certain amount of packages.
Because I use this environment all the time, I would be willing to step up and control GRML_XL, at least from time to time update it. I've already reported a few changes (remove ccrypt, hotkey-setup, sslscan, zoidberg), but GRML_XL will work with their new grml-live, and it should be ~700 MB.
I can't promise the quality, though, if I were to manage it. I don't really keep up to date with new Debian packages so if I were to do this I would need a bunch of people telling me what they want on it. I also have a ton on my plate, but releasing twice a year isn't so bad.
Just some thoughts.
-Brad
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 07:43:06PM +0100, Ulrich Dangel wrote:
- Alexander Wirt wrote [27.12.11 16:45]:
For me grml was always an all purpose live cd for text users and zsh addicts. I always knew I could just load a grml a I would have a more or less complete working environment afterwards.
The problem is we don't have the manpower to do such a release. It was always cumbersome and stressfull for the persons involved in the release.
And the complete work environment was always a problem. Several times questions like these came up:
Q: Does package X make sense on a Live-CD? A: No but people may using Grml as a Dekstop system/work environment…
For me personally it was always unclear what the purpose of Grml was, what's its vision, what belongs on the CD, what does not. And i think with this release it became clear and obvious.
On the other hand I was able to just use grml-small if I needed a live cd just for booting and chrooting into the usual environment (i.e. for restoring the bootloader) or use -small as a base for my own customisations.
Releasing all different kind of flavours like grml-{full,medium,small}{64,32} resulted in six isos, which all had to be tested. And again there were typically not many people involved in testing the releases. It was neither fun nor interesting nor rewarding. It was just a lot of work for nothing really important. And this is not something new.
And what is the reason for using grml-small instead of the new grml-full? USB sticks typically have more then 350mb, if you want to use the ISO image on /boot in combination with grml-rescueboot you can mount a LVM LV over /boot/grml and use that.
That being said, i think that we maybe should/can reintroducde grml-small. Removing packages from a package list should result in less problems than adding new ones. But first we must get rid of grml-small specific hacks (IMHO).
Unfortunatly these assumptions aren't valid anymore. IMHO it is not a good idea to focus on rescue environments. GRML was known for two things: the great collection of well prepared text tools and their release names.
If you look around the internet about discussions for rescue systems, network stuff or other Live-CDs, Grml was never recommended as the first Distribution. Typically only one persons in the threads writing Oh but i like Grml. Thats it. And i personally think it is because Grml was everything and nothing. No area it was especially good at but tried to please everyone.
I don't think focussing on release names as the only unique feature is a good idea. There are rescue systems like ten a penny.
That's the reason I wrote http://blog.grml.org/archives/369-10-reasons-why-you-should-use-Grml-instead...
And it is not only rescue, it is also installation. Thats for example the reason we added rinse to the packagel ist.
Also wasting 350 mb of space on a cd is a (imho) stupid thing.
Wasting 4 GB on a DVD is also a stupid thing… I don't think the free space left on a device should be considered an argument at all. Only if it fits on a specific medium.
I want my old grml-small and -full back. And as it seems I am not alone.
grml-full is the flavour name for the current release. grml-xl is atm the old package list.
If someone steps up regarding grml-xl sure. But the people involved in the release don't have the manpower to do it. And JFTR it does not only involve taking care of the package list but also checking the dailies, checking for dependency problems, testing RCs etc.
Long story short, the persons involved in the release process don't have the manpower or interest in grml-xl. If you want to see changes please start contributing&testing what works and actually work on making grml-xl releases a reality.
Ulrich
P.S: For a more personal view on the release process have a look at the blog entry of ch http://zeha.at/blog/2011/12/grml-pissed-off.html _______________________________________________ Grml-devel mailing list Grml-devel@ml.grml.org http://ml.grml.org/mailman/listinfo/grml-devel