new possible solution for blind grml users and x programs
To whom it may concern: \ I have found something that I think shows some promise for use by all the people who use speakup and do not wish to go to a graphical user environment in order just to get on line.
The program is called twin. This stands for text mode windowing environment. It can be found at http://linuz.sns.it/~max/twin/
There is a detailed tutorial as well as a sample configuration file includєd with the program. However, it makes little sense to me as I have no experience configuring x displays.
What I am trying to do with this programし is to get it to work in the following way:
First of all, interact with x programs as it says it will, but with the result that it will: bring the output of those programs back to a reぐular tty display where speakup is active.
However, with all the attaching, detaching, running on x servers, display numbers and the rest, I am totally lost.
If some person here can help me in configuring this program to work as a text mode solution to a graphical problem, I will be most greatful.
Thank you in advance.
Doug Smith
Doug
Twin was shipped with grml 1.0 but is not in the latest grml-2008.11. This means you can install it directly with
root# aptitude install twin
This will come with some form of default configuration for you.
But I'm confused. If you don't want or need a gui then why do you have to launch one at all? Can you not stay in a login shell and use screen for multiple windows? Or, if you use emacs, then you can have very closely similar environments in any situation. That is emacs in the login shell, on a linux gui and on Windows XP or Vista behave in a closely related manner. Are the text browsers lynx, w3m, links or edbrowse not sufficient for what you are doing. w3m in particular has emacs integration.
Best Wishes Moss
On 10/01/2009, Doug Smith wrote: I have found something that I think shows some promise for use by all the people who use speakup and do not wish to go to a graphical user environment in order just to get on line.
The program is called twin. This stands for text mode windowing environment. It can be found at http://linuz.sns.it/~max/twin/ etc.
* moss@mythic-beasts.com moss@mythic-beasts.com [20090114 17:09]:
Twin was shipped with grml 1.0 but is not in the latest grml-2008.11. This means you can install it directly with
root# aptitude install twin
No, as twin was removed from Debian. See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446692
regards, -mika-
Oops! Thanks for the correction Mika. If it is not maintained at all then I'd suggest that Twin may be dubious to use in the long term. It will slowly lose its relation to the rest of the operating environment and therefore tend toward malfunction. The longer it goes on the worse it is likely to become.
Best Wishes Moss
On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 05:49:27PM +0100 or thereabouts, Michael Prokop wrote:
- moss@mythic-beasts.com moss@mythic-beasts.com [20090114 17:09]:
Twin was shipped with grml 1.0 but is not in the latest grml-2008.11. This means you can install it directly with
root# aptitude install twin
No, as twin was removed from Debian. See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446692
regards, -mika-
Dear core developers of GRML,
I would like to please You, if You could include ATI Radeon 9000 series driver to GRML live CD, because GRMLx reported error related to ATI RAdeon 9000 graphics cart, so i was not able to execute Gnome. I installed Gnome successfully, Gnome even tried to automatically start during boot, but error messages related to ATI RADEON 9000 series graphics cart appeared, so Gnome could not be used. I Am very sad, that there is probably no tool such as apt-get or similar tool for downloading and automatically installing device drivers in Debian. If there is this script, could somebody give me instructions, how to install driver for this graphics cart? GRML is ammazing tool, there is even possibility to use utilities for rescue data from corrupted partitions, and because fortunately, those tools are console based, Yasr, Brltty and Speakup can be used.
Next question.
Could i change GRML language after booting A live CD to Czech unicode, and can i switch Espeak synthesizer with Speakup screen reader to Czech language? Or core developers of Grml modified source code of Espeak and removed code, which could enable users to switch Espeak to other than English language?
I Am aware, that core developers of Grml specially prepared this CD for text tools user and for system administrators, and that they prepared this distro for Xwindow and other included Window managers, and that using Gnome after installing GRML to A hard drive is experimental approach. I think, that grmlx script is working without errors, grml2hd also worked fine. But in A specific hardware configurations, user will have to download driver for his specific device, this is common for all operating systems.
Thank You for Your answers.
Janusz,
For the first question more accurate detail is needed. Do this
$ grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log >xerrors
This will create a new plain text file in the current directory called xerrors. It contains only those lines on which EE appears when X tried to load. My system gave this:
Current Operating System: Linux grml 2.6.20-grml #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu May 3 20:20:41 CEST 2007 i686 (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER (EE) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI capable
Paste that files contents into an email to grml@mur.at
Second question. Do ls -R /usr/share/keymaps | grep cz (Notice -R is a capital R for recursive not small r for reverse.) This will give you a list of Czech keymap files. Don't know what you will find on the live CD but my installed grml 1.0 gave this
cz-lat2.kmap.gz lt.kmap.gz se-fi-ir209.kmap.gz cz-lat2-prog.kmap.gz lt.l4.kmap.gz se-fi-lat6.kmap.gz cz-us-qwerty.kmap.gz lv-latin4.kmap.gz se-ir209.kmap.gz cz-us-qwertz.kmap.gz mac-usb-fr_CH-latin1.kmap.gz sunkeymap.kmap.gz sunt5-cz-us.kmap.gz sunt5-ru.kmap.gz sunt4-es.kmap.gz sunt5-fi-latin1.kmap.gz sunt5-us-cz.kmap.gz
So if I do loadkeys /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/cz-us-qwerty.kmap.gz in a terminal then I will have a Czech keyboard.
To do the same for X have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf where you will find something like
Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection
Change the uk to cz and restart X and you should then be right. European keyboards are usually 105 keys rather than 104.
Regards Moss
Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:
Dear core developers of GRML,
I would like to please You, if You could include ATI Radeon 9000
series driver to GRML live CD, because GRMLx reported error related to ATI RAdeon 9000 graphics cart, so i was not able to execute Gnome. I installed Gnome successfully, Gnome even tried to automatically start during boot, but error messages related to ATI RADEON 9000 series graphics cart appeared, so Gnome could not be used. I Am very sad, that there is probably no tool such as apt-get or similar tool for downloading and automatically installing device drivers in Debian. If there is this script, could somebody give me instructions, how to install driver for this graphics cart? GRML is ammazing tool, there is even possibility to use utilities for rescue data from corrupted partitions, and because fortunately, those tools are console based, Yasr, Brltty and Speakup can be used.
Next question.
Could i change GRML language after booting A live CD to Czech unicode,
and can i switch Espeak synthesizer with Speakup screen reader to Czech language? Or core developers of Grml modified source code of Espeak and removed code, which could enable users to switch Espeak to other than English language?
I Am aware, that core developers of Grml specially prepared this CD
for text tools user and for system administrators, and that they prepared this distro for Xwindow and other included Window managers, and that using Gnome after installing GRML to A hard drive is experimental approach. I think, that grmlx script is working without errors, grml2hd also worked fine. But in A specific hardware configurations, user will have to download driver for his specific device, this is common for all operating systems.
Thank You for Your answers.
Janusz,
For the first question more accurate detail is needed. Do this
$ grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log >xerrors
This will create a new plain text file in the current directory called xerrors. It contains only those lines on which EE appears when X tried to load. My system gave this:
Current Operating System: Linux grml 2.6.20-grml #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu May 3 20:20:41 CEST 2007 i686 (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER (EE) AIGLX: Screen 0 is not DRI capable
Paste that files contents into an email to grml@mur.at
Second question. Do ls -R /usr/share/keymaps | grep cz (Notice -R is a capital R for recursive not small r for reverse.) This will give you a list of Czech keymap files. Don't know what you will find on the live CD but my installed grml 1.0 gave this
cz-lat2.kmap.gz lt.kmap.gz se-fi-ir209.kmap.gz cz-lat2-prog.kmap.gz lt.l4.kmap.gz se-fi-lat6.kmap.gz cz-us-qwerty.kmap.gz lv-latin4.kmap.gz se-ir209.kmap.gz cz-us-qwertz.kmap.gz mac-usb-fr_CH-latin1.kmap.gz sunkeymap.kmap.gz sunt5-cz-us.kmap.gz sunt5-ru.kmap.gz sunt4-es.kmap.gz sunt5-fi-latin1.kmap.gz sunt5-us-cz.kmap.gz
So if I do loadkeys /usr/share/keymaps/i386/qwerty/cz-us-qwerty.kmap.gz in a terminal then I will have a Czech keyboard.
To do the same for X have a look at /etc/X11/xorg.conf where you will find something like
Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "kbd" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xorg" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection
Change the uk to cz and restart X and you should then be right. European keyboards are usually 105 keys rather than 104.
Regards Moss
Mgr. Janusz Chmiel wrote:
Dear core developers of GRML,
I would like to please You, if You could include ATI Radeon 9000 seriesdriver to GRML live CD, because GRMLx reported error related to ATI RAdeon 9000 graphics cart, so i was not able to execute Gnome. I installed Gnome successfully, Gnome even tried to automatically start during boot, but error messages related to ATI RADEON 9000 series graphics cart appeared, so Gnome could not be used. I Am very sad, that there is probably no tool such as apt-get or similar tool for downloading and automatically installing device drivers in Debian. If there is this script, could somebody give me instructions, how to install driver for this graphics cart? GRML is ammazing tool, there is even possibility to use utilities for rescue data from corrupted partitions, and because fortunately, those tools are console based, Yasr, Brltty and Speakup can be used.
Next question.
Could i change GRML language after booting A live CD to Czech unicode, and can i switch Espeak synthesizer with Speakup screen reader to Czech language? Or core developers of Grml modified source code of Espeak and removed code, which could enable users to switch Espeak to other than English language?
I Am aware, that core developers of Grml specially prepared this CD fortext tools user and for system administrators, and that they prepared this distro for Xwindow and other included Window managers, and that using Gnome after installing GRML to A hard drive is experimental approach. I think, that grmlx script is working without errors, grml2hd also worked fine. But in A specific hardware configurations, user will have to download driver for his specific device, this is common for all operating systems.
Thank You for Your answers.
Grml mailing list - Grml@mur.at http://lists.mur.at/mailman/listinfo/grml join #grml on irc.freenode.org grml-devel-blog: http://grml.supersized.org/
Apologies for the double post. I sent from the wrong email address to begin with.
Moss
Janusz
If you boot to the console and launch X with
$ grml-x -module vesa
it should work on any graphics card whatsoever. Apparently a lot of people have had trouble with the ATI 9000 as it sometimes requires proprietary drivers. But these people are usually looking for 3D effects, for example. I should think that this is not important to you. If it is then have a look at
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/finally-got-3d-in-debian-l...
Moss
What I need to do is to use the graphical browsers such as firefox. The text mode ones are good enough only for some limited web browsing. However, if you go to any radio station site, or go to
or go to any site that uses javascript or any kind of fancy new eye-candy for its core functionality, you're in for trouble.
What I was trying to do is to get twin to work, then use the firefox that comes with the grml 2008.11 version to see if I can get on line that way. If so, I was only going to use twin so that I could get on line with a sufficiently powerful browser to overcome all the scripting and java applet problems.
Thanks.
Doug Smith
On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:03:47 -0500 Doug Smith dougsmith1@charter.net wrote:
What I need to do is to use the graphical browsers such as firefox. The text mode ones are good enough only for some limited web browsing. However, if you go to any radio station site, or go to
or go to any site that uses javascript or any kind of fancy new eye-candy for its core functionality, you're in for trouble.
What I was trying to do is to get twin to work, then use the firefox that comes with the grml 2008.11 version to see if I can get on line that way. If so, I was only going to use twin so that I could get on line with a sufficiently powerful browser to overcome all the scripting and java applet problems.
Maybe a lightweight window manager like openbox would suit your needs... there is only a desktop menu (by default) that is easily edited using obmenu and openbox itself is easily configured using obconf if you want to change basic behavior or themes. In fact if you don't care for using the utilities, the default menu has a web browser and terminal right at the top of the menu.
Hope that helps...
Doug Smith dougsmith1@charter.net wrote:
What I need to do is to use the graphical browsers such as firefox. The text mode ones are good enough only for some limited web browsing.
Surely you can just install Debian and then install whatever you want after that, including Gnome, Orca, Firefox, etc.
GRML lets you install Debian onto a hard disk partition from the shell, if that's how you would prefer to do it - no need for a Debian installer.
Doug (and Janusz)
links2 is maintained in Czechoslovakia and it does have support for java though I know from experience that it does not always work. However, it does allow me to negotiate my bank account successfully. Many banks use java for verification and other things. You can launch links2 in text or graphical modes without starting the X server by doing links2 -g for graphical or simply links2 for textual.
http://links.twibright.com/index_cz.php http://links.twibright.com/features.php
Regards Moss
Doug Smith wrote:
What I need to do is to use the graphical browsers such as firefox. The text mode ones are good enough only for some limited web browsing. However, if you go to any radio station site, or go to
or go to any site that uses javascript or any kind of fancy new eye-candy for its core functionality, you're in for trouble.
What I was trying to do is to get twin to work, then use the firefox that comes with the grml 2008.11 version to see if I can get on line that way. If so, I was only going to use twin so that I could get on line with a sufficiently powerful browser to overcome all the scripting and java applet problems.
Thanks. Doug Smith
Doug
Forgot to add that links2 ships with grml.
If you do have to use firefox then you should install adblock with
# aptitude install mozilla-firefox-adblock
this will cut out a lot of the crud for you. It vastly improves my loading speeds on the SourceForge http://sf.net for example by blanking out adverts. There are other solutions such as bfilter but this adblock I find easier. If you can also do without a flash player such as adobe flash or the gnash (the gnu flash player) then so much the better. They are not installed by default.
Moss
participants (8)
-
Doug Smith -
Jason White -
Maurice McCarthy -
Maurice McCarthy -
Mgr. Janusz Chmiel -
Michael Prokop -
moss＠mythic-beasts.com
-
Myles Green