Hi.
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the new release.
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous but now, important packages are missing...
It's sad.
* Philippe Delavalade [Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 04:42:58PM +0100]:
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the new release.
If someone is stepping up to help us maintaining that we can bring it back.
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous but now, important packages are missing...
Which packages exactly are missing?
Do you have any documentation what you exactly did on Grml when building LFS?
regards, -mika-
Le mercredi 28 décembre à 16:59, Michael Prokop a écrit :
- Philippe Delavalade [Wed Dec 28, 2011 at 04:42:58PM +0100]:
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the new release.
If someone is stepping up to help us maintaining that we can bring it back.
I fear that I can't do this ; I'm just an enduser...
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous but now, important packages are missing...
Which packages exactly are missing?
For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.
Do you have any documentation what you exactly did on Grml when building LFS?
I'd never built lfs with grml but with debian testing ; but many people ask about a livecd as host system to do this. I have just verified the host system requirements :
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/prologue/hostreqs.html
Regards.
* Philippe Delavalade [Thu Dec 29, 2011 at 01:17:23PM +0100]:
Le mercredi 28 décembre à 16:59, Michael Prokop a écrit :
Which packages exactly are missing?
For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.
Ok, running:
apt-get update ; apt-get install bison gcc m4 texinfo libc6-dev
on Grml 2011.12 release says it would require ~33MB of additional disk space (all of those packages are required according to version-check.sh of LFS).
Do you have any documentation what you exactly did on Grml when building LFS?
I'd never built lfs with grml but with debian testing ; but many people ask about a livecd as host system to do this. I have just verified the host system requirements :
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/prologue/hostreqs.html
Thanks for the link.
Is there anyone out there interested in installing Linux From Scratch (LFS) using Grml and actually did that with previous Grml release?
regards, -mika-
* Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 13:17]:
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous but now, important packages are missing...
Which packages exactly are missing?
For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.
You must download the sources for your LFS system anyway. So typically you have a working network connection and can install the packages anyway. If we have snapshot.d.o URIs in the sources.list you can do that without updating your whole system. So i don't see any reason to ship these packages.
Le jeudi 29 décembre à 14:21, Ulrich Dangel a écrit :
- Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 13:17]:
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous but now, important packages are missing...
Which packages exactly are missing?
For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.
You must download the sources for your LFS system anyway. So typically you have a working network connection and can install the packages anyway. If we have snapshot.d.o URIs in the sources.list you can do that without updating your whole system. So i don't see any reason to ship these packages.
Yes but sources can be download with any system (not necessarly a linux one) ; the most important is that the lfs build is long and often people stop and restart later ; so, they'll have to update each time the missang packages. And, one time, I have built on a computer with no network but it was a long time ago and the lfs livecd was uptodate ; now, there's nomore specific lfs livecd...
Philippe,
In addition to the option of remastering Grml with the tools you need, it can also be used as a "persistent" live system, with the modifications to the live filesystem saved to a partition or snapshot file, e.g. on a usb drive. This is what I would probably do to save my work over a days-long project such as building LFS; in fact, I have used Grml persistent systems for weeks or months.
Hope this helps.
On Dec 29, 2011 12:13 PM, Philippe Delavalade <philippe.delavalade@sfr.fr> wrote:
Le jeudi 29 décembre à 14:21, Ulrich Dangel a écrit :
> * Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 13:17]:
> > > > Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build
> > > > linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous
> > > > but now, important packages are missing...
> > >
> > > Which packages exactly are missing?
> >
> > For instance : bison, m4, texinfo, etc.
>
> You must download the sources for your LFS system anyway. So typically
> you have a working network connection and can install the packages
> anyway. If we have snapshot.d.o URIs in the sources.list you can do that
> without updating your whole system. So i don't see any reason to ship
> these packages.
Yes but sources can be download with any system (not necessarly a linux
one) ; the most important is that the lfs build is long and often people
stop and restart later ; so, they'll have to update each time the missang
packages. And, one time, I have built on a computer with no network but it
was a long time ago and the lfs livecd was uptodate ; now, there's nomore
specific lfs livecd...
* William Gardella wrote [29.12.11 18:49]: Hi,
Philippe,
In addition to the option of remastering Grml with the tools you need, it can also be used as a "persistent" live system, with the modifications to the live filesystem saved to a partition or snapshot file, e.g. on a usb drive. This is what I would probably do to save my work over a days-long project such as building LFS; in fact, I have used Grml persistent systems for weeks or months.
Especially with persistency i see no need to add these packages to the list. You install it once and the changes are written to your usb stick - including the additional packages.
Ulrich
I don't understand why you think removing the brltty boot option is so bad. As a fellow blind systems administrator, that makes little sense to me. Its easier to start brltty after booting is finished. Otherwise, you have to get the timing just right. With the latest grml release, you don't even have to guess when booting is finished. It plays a tone when its done. So wait for the tone, press 'q' to quit the quick help menu, and type 'brltty'.
The only reason why starting brltty at the isolinux prompt could be important is if you need access to the boot messages. But if you really need access to the boot messages, you can use a serial console. And if you really, really need braille during the boot process, you can always make your own CD via grml-live.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippe Delavalade" philippe.delavalade@sfr.fr To: grml@ml.grml.org Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:42 AM Subject: [Grml] grml as host system
Hi.
I have already complain about the removal of the brltty boot option in the new release.
Now, I realise that the new grml is nomore suitable as host system to build linuxfromscratch ; previously I recommanded it as livecd for this purpous but now, important packages are missing...
It's sad.
-- Ph. Delavalade _______________________________________________ Grml mailing list - Grml@ml.grml.org http://ml.grml.org/mailman/listinfo/grml join #grml on irc.freenode.org grml-devel-blog: http://blog.grml.org/
Le mercredi 28 décembre à 17:33, John G. Heim a écrit :
I don't understand why you think removing the brltty boot option is so bad. As a fellow blind systems administrator, that makes little sense to me. Its easier to start brltty after booting is finished. Otherwise, you have to get the timing just right. With the latest grml release, you don't even have to guess when booting is finished. It plays a tone when its done. So wait for the tone, press 'q' to quit the quick help menu, and type 'brltty'.
I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !
The only reason why starting brltty at the isolinux prompt could be important is if you need access to the boot messages. But if you really need access to the boot messages, you can use a serial console. And if you really, really need braille during the boot process, you can always make your own CD via grml-live.
Yes but this is more complicated than using one command with grml2iso.
Regards.
From: "Philippe Delavalade" philippe.delavalade@sfr.fr To: grml@ml.grml.org
I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !
Well, you are free to disagree, of course. But you should explain why you disagree. What is easier about doing things the old way? The way it works now is you wait for the tone, press q, and type 'brltty'. There is less to type and you don't have to worry about timing. How is the old way easier?
Hi,
On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 08:22:44AM -0600, John G. Heim wrote:
From: "Philippe Delavalade" philippe.delavalade@sfr.fr To: grml@ml.grml.org
I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !
It is in the text you are quoting ^
Well, you are free to disagree, of course. But you should explain why you disagree. What is easier about doing things the old way? The way it works now is you wait for the tone, press q, and type 'brltty'. There is less to type and you don't have to worry about timing. How is the old way easier?
He modified the default bootoptions so he had a version where on every boot it was all setup without worrying about anything.
Regards, cstamas
Le jeudi 29 décembre à 15:22, John G. Heim a écrit :
From: "Philippe Delavalade" philippe.delavalade@sfr.fr To: grml@ml.grml.org
I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !
Well, you are free to disagree, of course. But you should explain why you disagree. What is easier about doing things the old way? The way it works now is you wait for the tone, press q, and type 'brltty'. There is less to type and you don't have to worry about timing. How is the old way easier?
Maybe my english is too bad :-)
I type one grml2iso command ; I burn a CD and then, on aech boot, I have exactly nothing to do.
* Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 14:25]: Hi Philippe ,
JFTR we are currently discussing our decision regarding the brltty boot option. We just discovered that the bootoption was for example already according to http://mielke.cc/brltty/guidelines.html Christan Hofstaedtler reported http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=653587 while investigating the current state of brltty in Debian.
One small question does brltty really supports configuring itself via the bootoption? Do you need any parameters like -b -d or -t at all if you specify the brltty boot option in the commandline?
I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !
JFTR you can still do it:
1) Create a directory named /tmp/grml_overlay We will use grml2iso to copy the content of this directory to the iso. 2) Create a directory named scripts inside /tmp/grml_overlay and create a script named grml.sh inside the directory (/tmp/grml_overlay/scripts/grml.sh) 3) Inside the script run the necessary commands to start brltty 4) run
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
The important option here is the scripts bootoption which will automatically run scripts/grml.sh at startup. This allows you to automatically start brltty on your own. The -c bootoption copies the content from the specified directory directly onto the iso image containing your script which will start brltty.
OVERLAY_DIR=/tmp/grml_overlay mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR" mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts vi "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh chmod 755 $OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
cheers, Ulrich
Le jeudi 29 décembre à 20:18, Ulrich Dangel a écrit :
- Philippe Delavalade wrote [29.12.11 14:25]:
Hi Philippe ,
HI Ulrich.
JFTR we are currently discussing our decision regarding the brltty boot option. We just discovered that the bootoption was for example already according to http://mielke.cc/brltty/guidelines.html Christan Hofstaedtler reported http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=653587 while investigating the current state of brltty in Debian.
I have no information about this ; I'll try to follow these links next week.
One small question does brltty really supports configuring itself via the bootoption?
Yes, perfectly for me with grml or debian.
Do you need any parameters like -b -d or -t at all if you specify the brltty boot option in the commandline?
I don't understand exactly what you mean ; nevertheless, I'll try to answer as best as possible :
1) with the correct boot option (for me brltty=pm,usb:,fr_FR), there's nothing more to do ; 2) without the boot option, after the tones in grml_2011.12, without any boot option about language, I have to use the -t option on the commandline ; but for someone connected with something else than usb, the -b and -d options are mandatory.
I hope this is the answer you are waiting for :-)
I don't agree :-) For me, it is simpler to use grml2iso one time :
grml2iso -b "my boot options" -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
and then, there's nothing to do !
JFTR you can still do it:
- Create a directory named /tmp/grml_overlay We will use grml2iso to
copy the content of this directory to the iso. 2) Create a directory named scripts inside /tmp/grml_overlay and create a script named grml.sh inside the directory (/tmp/grml_overlay/scripts/grml.sh) 3) Inside the script run the necessary commands to start brltty
Shall I se the bootoption style or the commandline style ? I guess the command line but...
- run
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
I think you mean grml_2011.12.iso or is it a mistake from me ?
And in the -b parameter, shall I, for instance, type : "lang=fr scripts" ?
The important option here is the scripts bootoption which will automatically run scripts/grml.sh at startup. This allows you to automatically start brltty on your own. The -c bootoption copies the content from the specified directory directly onto the iso image containing your script which will start brltty.
This is perfect for me but I fear it's a little complicated for other blind people I know :-)
OVERLAY_DIR=/tmp/grml_overlay mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR" mkdir "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts vi "$OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh
I should have used {$OVERLAY_DIR} or simply $OVERLAY_dir ; am I wrong ?
chmod 755 $OVERLAY_DIR"/scripts/grml.sh grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
I'll try this as soon as possible but not this new year week-end.
cheers,
Real thanks !
* Philippe Delavalade wrote [30.12.11 11:26]:
- Create a directory named scripts inside /tmp/grml_overlay and create a script named grml.sh inside the directory (/tmp/grml_overlay/scripts/grml.sh)
- Inside the script run the necessary commands to start brltty
Shall I se the bootoption style or the commandline style ? I guess the command line but...
- run
grml2iso -b "boot options scripts" -c /tmp/grml_overlay -o grml_brl.iso grml_2011.05.iso
I think you mean grml_2011.12.iso or is it a mistake from me ?
I used your parameter/iso name to make things more comprehensive. This works with the 2011.05 iso as well but you can choose any Grml ISO image you like.
And in the -b parameter, shall I, for instance, type : "lang=fr scripts" ?
yes.
Teilnehmer (6)
-
Csillag Tamas -
John G. Heim -
Michael Prokop -
Philippe Delavalade -
Ulrich Dangel -
William Gardella