http://www.linuxwiki.org/Cream
X11 only but would be nice addition for grml. Just some scripts, little space. It could get more people acquainted with VIM, too.
M
* Mark 27e3kk302@sneakemail.com [20060922 08:15]:
X11 only but would be nice addition for grml. Just some scripts, little space. It could get more people acquainted with VIM, too.
~3MB is not little space for software that requires X and is for beginners who want to use Vim like M$ Notpad. ;) Just run 'apt-get install cream' if you really need it.
regards, -mika-
beginners who want to use Vim like M$ Notpad. ;)
Not just beginners want ease of use. Computers are supposed to serve us, not vice-versa. My customers are not impressed when I spend more time looking up commands than getting their problems solved.
Just run 'apt-get install cream' if you really need it.
Of course.
Am 22.09.2006 um 23:13 schrieb Mark:
Not just beginners want ease of use. Computers are supposed to serve us, not vice-versa. My customers are not impressed when I spend more time looking up commands than getting their problems solved.
Maybe you should learn your tools. Hackin in a "notepad"-like editor in front of a client doesn't look too good...
Maybe you should learn your tools. Hackin in a "notepad"-like editor in front of a client doesn't look too good...
Be polite. This is not a Debian list ;-). I am good in VIM and still like cream. It allows you to drop into raw VIM at any time. And you can still launch VIM without cream, too.
Mika is right, 3MB is too much. Maybe someday cream will release "cream-small" without the spelling dictionaries and user docs.
M
Am 22.09.2006 um 23:28 schrieb Mark:
Maybe you should learn your tools. Hackin in a "notepad"-like editor in front of a client doesn't look too good...
Be polite.
Sorry, didn't want to insult you.
This is not a Debian list ;-). I am good in VIM and still like cream. It allows you to drop into raw VIM at any time. And you can still launch VIM without cream, too.
Mika is right, 3MB is too much. Maybe someday cream will release "cream-small" without the spelling dictionaries and user docs.
The thing is: grml is for sysadmins, and they are supposed to know their tools. So cream *should* stay out.
The thing is: grml is for sysadmins, and they are supposed to know their tools. So cream *should* stay out.
I do know my tools, and I want cream around to make my sysadmin work easier. We just have a philosophical difference. The less my computer asks me to memorize, the more it is helping me. I would rather click pretty buttons than type cryptic commands from memory.
VIM cannot do everything well, by the way. Sometimes I drop into raw *nix commands because of VIM deficiencies. Knowing a tool's limits is often more important.
Over and out, M
Incoming from Mark:
[snippage] easier. We just have a philosophical difference. The less my computer asks me to memorize, the more it is helping me. I would rather click pretty buttons than type cryptic commands from memory.
... As real sysadmins do regularly, with heaping portions of reading man pages, surfing for clues, or just trying things? *Real* sysadmins don't prefer GUIs. They're far too limiting.
VIM cannot do everything well, by the way. Sometimes I drop into raw *nix commands because of VIM deficiencies. Knowing a tool's limits is often more important.
"VIM cannot do everything well, ..." "... VIM deficiencies."
I smell a religious war ... 'Sounds to me like someone doesn't grok that the CLI is a *feature*, not an encumbrance. We definitely have philosophical differences. Computers are good for automating repetitive, trivial tasks for us. Their ability to think for us is nonexistent. Asking a computer to handle something complex *for you* is just asking for trouble. The DWIM ("Do What I mean") key does not exist.
Unix/Linux/Grml rocks. It's not for those who haven't the time to learn its intricasies:
Intricacy \In"tri*ca*cy, n.; pl. {Intricacies}. [From {Intricate}.] The state or quality of being intricate or entangled; perplexity; involution; complication; complexity; that which is intricate or involved; as, the intricacy of a knot; the intricacy of accounts; the intricacy of a cause in controversy; the intricacy of a plot.
GUIs can be useful, for exceptionally well defined tasks. That situation doesn't often exist in a sysadmin's world. Give me a CLI, and I can move the world. Give me a GUI, and I can do what it can do. Ick.
[Apologies to the list. I'll bow out of this now. Anyone wishing to discuss this further, feel free to mail off-list. I'll be happy to play out of earshot of others less interested.]
participants (4)
-
Mark -
Michael Prokop -
s. keeling -
Steffen Liebergeld